
  Date: 10-01-94  15:08
  From: Don Kimberlin                            
    To: Stan Phillips                              
  Subj: Tesla, Col.sprng    

DK> ...Hmmm...wonder how the UV lights would provide a "downlink"
DK> as well as an "uplink?"

SP> The same way that normal phone conversations go both ways on
SP> the same telephone line?

...Doesn't fit, Stan.  The concept, as I get it, was to
essentially "modulate" an uplink beam with power energy...but HOW
would one pick it off the ionosphere at some "downlink" point? 
Was there supposed to be enough energy up there that any UV beam
reaching it would be somehow magically "modulated" back down its
length -- some sort of "Luxembourg Effect" of power transmission?

DK> Believe it or not, the Last of the Dinosaurs of Radio seems
DK> to bave been built as late as 1927 -- running a megawatt on
DK> SIXTEEN KILOhertz! 

SP> Not so much a Dinosaur as a means of very long range
SP> communications, and about the only means of communcating with
SP> submarines (below water). From Gibraltar, one could key to
SP> sub's in the med, using the transmitter in Rugby (England).
SP> The keying relays at Rugby were massive and very noisy 
SP> circuit breakers that could not operate very fast.  

...Sounds like you heard about Rugby Radio's GBR in its later
days. Back in 1927, it wasn't first built for comms to subs, but
for an "Empire Communications Plan," essentially, as they so
often put it in those plans, to "reach the antipodes," meaning in
British parlance, Australia and New Zealand.  The submarine comms
came along much later, and apparently the Official Secrets Act
still keeps that quiet, as that later mission isn't talked about
even today.  And, only passing remarks are made about the
Admiralty using it in WWII.  Nobody will even talk about how it
must have been a Nazi bombing target and if the Nazis ever did
try a raid on it or not.   The final "mission" of GBR was as
a  "standard time and frequency transmission," for a few minutes
per hour, until 1986.  Since then, it has been sitting there
cold, like a dinosaur embedded in electronic amber, because the
rest of Rugby Radio's plant around it is still operational,
albeit dwindling rapidly now...

SP> Another thing was that people living local to Rugby had many
SP> built-in recievers such as knives and forks in the kitchen
SP> draw.  These would sing at 16Khz.  Some claimed that the 
SP> fillings in their teeth detected the signal.  All drainpipes
SP> and plumbing had to be bonded or they would sing too.  While
SP> one could light a bulb off a simple loop, it was not too good
SP> as the bulb went on and off, and in anycase, one could always
SP> light a bulb with the 200Khz transmitter at Droitwich (if you
SP> lived near enough). 

...Surprised the Electricity Board didn't complain...heheee!

SP> As an aside from this, it was not uncommon in the early days
SP> of Transistors to wind a loop tuned to the local AM station
SP> to power a small transistor radio!!!!!

...Yep.  I did my first career as a radio station transmitter
engineer. One place had a rented house near a tower, and the
tenants even suffered the famous "musical toilet."  It even
played the Star Spangled Banner at 6 AM daily as we signed on...

...Anyhow, thanks for the vignettes about GBR's megawatt monster. 
I do not have much of a handle on how populated "Hillmorton, near
Rugby" is or was. I guess it was pretty isolated in 1927, but
probably isn't any more...have you any color to add about that? 
...or, GBR's WWII life?  (704)792-9241 (1:379/37.0)


  Date: 10-02-94  20:52
  From: Don Kimberlin                              
    To: Bruce Kingsbury                            
  Subj: Tesla, Col.Sprng

DK> ...That's my concern:  The current-carrying capability of
DK> the ionosphere can't be much; thus the voltage would have to
DK> be something absolutely incredible in order to transmit any
DK> meaningful amount of power.

BK> No, because at high frequency and voltage, ionised gasses
BK> conduct very well. 

...Oh, boy. Save me a trip to the old physics books.  What sort
of range might the current densities fall in?  If we're talking
megavolts, it would still have to be kiloamps in order to carry
gigawatts, right?  And that's before considering any conversion
losses...(Of course, considering that in Tesla's time, since
lighting a bulb or two per room was perhaps the total demand, one
gigawatt might have lit a whole nation...) (704)792-9241 
(1:379/37.0)


  Date: 10-03-94  10:09
  From: Ken Stewart                                 
    To: Richard Quick                              
  Subj: Tesla Coils, Etc.

I was doing some scrounging around this weekend and found a
couple of fairly new neon sign transformers, 120v to 4.5kv.  Are
they usable for a desktop Tesla coil?  Your files referenced 10
kv and up.  BTY, I will send you the cash and blank tape this
week.  I am looking forward to seeing your video.
919-662-9313 9353 (1:151/147)


  Date: 06 Oct 94  20:35:52
  From: Richard Quick                                
    To: Ken Stewart                                  
  Subj: Tesla Coils, Etc.

 KS> I was doing some scrounging around this weekend and found a  
 KS> couple of fairly new neon sign transformers, 120v to 4.5kv.  
 KS> Are they usable for a desktop Tesla coil?  Your files        
 KS> referenced 10 kv and up.  

You can work with Tesla tank circuits that run on less than 9kv,
but your best bet is to stick with neons that are rated 9kv-15kv.

 KS> BTW, I will send you the cash and blank tape this week.  I   
 KS> am looking forward to seeing your video.

Everyone, with only one exception, has liked the video.


  Date: 10-10-94  15:58
  From: Kirk Lyons                                  
    To: Richard Quick                               
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil
for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project.  One
source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1 tsp.
at a time).  The other source would only sell it to me in 
55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors).

Can you please provide me with a source for this.  Thank
you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any
info you can give me on a source for this oil. 
(314) 837-5422 (1:100/395)


  Date: 10-10-94  18:02
  From: Richard Quick                             
    To: Kirk Lyons                                  
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

 KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil
 KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project.  One
 KL> source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1   
 KL> tsp. at a time).  The other source would only sell it to me  
 KL> in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors).

 KL> Can you please provide me with a source for this.  Thank
 KL> you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any
 KL> info you can give me on a source for this oil. 

U.S.P. Mineral oil is available in pint and quart containers in
most supermarkets and drug stores. Walgreens Drugstores carries
this oil in quart containers for around $5.00, so figure about 
$20.00 to get a gallon. If they don't have a gallon (four quarts)
in stock, ask the floor manager, they can order it quickly.

Scented mineral oil (not U.S.P. grade, but still high quality) is
sold under the label "Baby Oil" by Johnson & Johnson. This grade 
is also suitable for capacitor construction. Try an off-brand
(which by law is equivilent) for cost savings. Sometimes this
grade can be found on sale (WAL-MART $1.50 per pint).

I hope you downloaded the most current TESLA?.ZIP file and made
it available on your favorite BBSs! Thanks for the complements!


  Date: 14 Oct 94  18:07:36
  From: Richard Quick                                
    To: Terry Smith                                  
  Subj: Tesla power xmission

DK> ...Again, when it's conduction, the emphasis is on current,
DK> not voltage...at least for ordinary mentalities...can you    
DK> help get my perspective right for this understanding?
 
RQ> Long distance 60 cycle transmission uses voltage, not 
RQ> current, to transmit the power. 

TS> This is highly inaccurate...
 
 TS>...  Power is quite simply the product of both voltage and    
 TS> current, assuming no phase difference.  In long distance     
 TS> power transmission, I^2R losses are minimized by using high  
 TS> E, low I.

My understanding is that you understood perfectly. So, is the
emphasis on greater voltage, or greater current, for economical
long distance power transmission?


  Date: 14 Oct 94  18:06:02
  From: Richard Quick                                
    To: Don Kimberlin                                
  Subj: Tesla power xmission

 DK> ...Hmmm...wonder how the UV lights would provide a           
 DK> "downlink" as well as an "uplink?"
 
 SP> The same way that normal phone conversations go both ways on 
 SP> the same telephone line?

 DK> ...Doesn't fit, Stan.  The concept, as I get it, was to      
 DK> essentially "modulate" an uplink beam with power energy...
 DK> but HOW would one pick it  off the ionosphere at some        
 DK> "downlink" point?  Was there supposed to be enough energy up 
 DK> there that any UV beam reaching it would be somehow          
 DK> magically "modulated" back down its length -- some sort of
 DK> "Luxembourg  Effect" of power transmission?

Modulate? Send the power up just as if the beam were a wire.
Bring it back down? Put another wire up (or beam) and conduct it
to the ground. We are talking about a high voltage electrical
current passed through direct, point of contact, conduction.

Or do you view 60 cycle power transmsission as a "modulation" of
the copper or aluminum wire? Tesla's more modern system of
wireless power transmission system works the same way as his
earlier version, just at a slightly higher frequency, and using
different conductors.

I would not think that the idea of conduction through a low
pressure gas, or conduction through a high pressure gas which is
sufficiently ionized, would be so foreign. In a glowing neon tube
do you consider the gas to be "modulated" with the 60 cycle
signal; or does it simply conduct? 

Electricity passed through a glowing neon tube: does it require
"magic" in your opinion to get the energy to conduct to a low
voltage point, or is it the nature of high voltage currents to
seek low voltage grounds? 


  Date: 10-08-94  00:45
  From: Bruce Lane                                  
    To: Michael Cary                                
  Subj: Re: Jacobs Ladder

Michael Cary whapped All with a rubber chicken, and demanded
Jacobs Ladder...

 MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard it  
 MC> would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project.

Pretty easy, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful, as the
voltages involved are very dangerous.

All you need is a neon sign transformer and a couple of bare-wire
coat hangers. Cut the hangers up to provide the two leads for the
spark gap, and remove any insulating varnish with a bench grinder
or wire brush.

Bend the chopped-up hangers into a V-shape, attach them to the
appropriate terminals on the transformer, stand back and plug it
in. You may need to adjust the gap a bit. Do NOT do this with the
transformer plugged in!!!

Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing with
the kind of power a neon sign transformer is capable of
generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Give the thing at
least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it and keep it
well isolated from anything flammable. That spark is easily
capable of setting something on fire. ==Bruce (1:138/198)


  Date: 10-12-94  23:42
  From: James Grimsley                            
    To: Michael Cary                               
  Subj: Re: Jacobs Ladder

 -=> Quoting Michael Cary to All <=-

 MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard it  
 MC> would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project.  

An easy way is to use heavy guage copper wire for the poles and a
neon sign transformer for the power supply. Careful, tho. The
shock be lethal. 210-658-0994 (1:387/520.0)


  Date: 10-13-94  05:57
  From: Michael Cary                                
    To: Bruce Lane                                   
  Subj: Re: Jacobs Ladder

-> Michael Cary whapped All with a rubber chicken, and demanded
-> Jacobs Ladder

MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard
MC> it would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project.

-> Pretty easy, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful, as the
-> voltage involved are very dangerous.

-> All you need is a neon sign transformer and a couple of 
-> bare-wire hangers. Cut the hangers up to provide the two leads
-> for the spark gap. Remove any insulating varnish with a bench
-> grinder or wire brush.

-> Bend the chopped-up hangers into a V-shape, attach them to the
-> appropriate terminals on the transformer, stand back and plug
-> it in. You may need to adjust the gap a bit. Do NOT do this 
-> with the transformer plugged in!!!

-> Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing
-> with the of power a neon sign transformer is capable of 
-> generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Give the thing
-> at least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it and 
-> keep it well isolated from anything flammable. That spark is -
> easily capable of setting something on fire.==Bruce(1:138/198)

Thanks for the info.  I think I'll give it a try.
619-474-9385 (1:202/1705.0)

  Date: 17 Oct 94  16:48:57
  From: Richard Quick                                
    To: Bruce Lane                                   
  Subj: Jacobs Ladder

 ->  MC> Hello, this is Michael Cary and I was wondering how hard 
 ->  MC> it would be to construct a Jacobs Ladder project.

 -> Pretty easy, but you need to be EXTREMELY careful, as the     
 -> voltage involved are very dangerous...

Edited out accurate and informative instructions on building a
Jacob's Ladder out of wire coat hangers and a neon sign xfmr...

 -> Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing     
 -> with the of power a neon sign transformer is capable of       
 -> generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! Give the thing 
 -> at least a ten-foot radius of clear space all around it and   
 -> keep it well isolated from anything flammable. That spark is  
 -> easily capable of setting something on fire. == Bruce
 -> 619-474-9385 (1:202/1705.0)

A bit over cautious perhaps. Just as an added note: the 15,000
volt neons give the best arc, and for additional power you can
wire two or three neons in parallel for a nice fat growler. I
have never seen any reason to allow "at least a ten-foot radius
of clear space all around it", but your advice on flammables is
well given. 

Having messed with these xfmrs for years as power supplies for
various high-voltage projects (Jacob's Ladders, Tesla Coils,
etc.) without any shocking accidents, I can only repeat the lore
from my local neon shop friends who supply me with used cores:
though they do bite, these professionals have not heard of a
serious injury or lethal accident resulting when someone has
contacted the high voltage bushings: but this is not to say that
the potential for serious harm does not exist, only that it is
rare. Though I would not recommend repeating the demonstration by
anyone without experience, I have lit cigars from the arc of some
of my smaller Jacob's Ladders. 


  Date: 10-06-94  20:39
  From: Richard Quick                              
    To: Mark Conway                               
  Subj: Tesla coils

 -=> Sez Mark Conway to Richard Quick <=-

 MC> Hi Richard, Got a couple more questions to ask you. 

Please, go right ahead.

 MC> I have been running my tesla coil without a safety gap or    
 MC> bypass capacitor in the circuit as I just wanted to see if   
 MC> it worked. I have stopped running it now as I dont want to   
 MC> blow the neon. 

Yes, you can run without a safety gap, bypass filters, and RF
choking. But you are correct, if you keep it up your neon will
fail prematurely.

 MC> Looking thru your postings I cannot find much info on how to 
 MC> build the safety gap. I notice in your circuit diagram that  
 MC> the middle of the safety gap is grounded. How do you do
 MC> this when you make the safety gap? Do you have a sheet of    
 MC> metal or something between the two elctrodes of the gap and  
 MC> the sparks jump to this? 

The safety gap need not be complex, precision, or expensive. A
couple of ajustable screws or bolts mounted on some insulators
with a grounded brass or copper plate between them works just
fine. I like to use threaded (adjustable) brass or copper
electrodes for added conductivity, but it is not really
necessary. The xfmr core, safety gap center post, and the base of
the Tesla secondary coil all connect with heavy strap to a heavy,
dedicated, RF grounding system. Your coil won't need anything
massive for a ground... yet!

 MC> Also I am unable to find any of those doorknob caps that you
 MC> use for your bypass capacitor. Since the capacitance of      
 MC> these caps is so small do you think it would be ok if I made 
 MC> a small capacitor out of aluminium foil and glass? 

Glass has a very high RF dissipation factor. Since we are
attempting to dissipate kickback energy at this end of the
circuit, glass and aluminum capacitors will work beautifully
here!


  Date: 09-25-94  19:06
  From: Jim Oliver                                 
    To: Richard Quick                              
  Subj: Tesla Coils

On: 19-09-94 RICHARD QUICK wrote To: MARK CONWAY

heavily edited

MC> One thing I'm not sure of is what mineral oil is - is it
MC> used for lubricating machines or what?

RQ> Well in this country, mineral oil is a pharmaceutical 
RQ> (medical) grade of pure petroleum oil. It is sold in 
RQ> drugstores as an intestinal lubricant (laxative), and for 
RQ> skin care (women use it to remove makeup). It is heavy, 
RQ> clear, and has little or no smell (odorless). Another use for
RQ> this product is to oil down baby bottoms to prevent diaper
RQ> rash.

It's also called Paraffin Oil.

MC> Would clean motor oil have the same insulating properties as
MC> mineral oil or would the additives in it mean that it would
MC> not be suitable for high voltage insulation?

RQ> I have used cheap, clean, motor to cover the salt water in
RQ> salt water capacitors; but for the plastic capacitors I spend
RQ> the extra money and go with the higher quality, pure, mineral
RQ> oil.

Here, here. Engine oil of _any_ type is too heavily contaminated
with additives for HV work.

RQ> A good alternative would be high grade, PCB free, transformer
RQ> oil, which is sometimes available from oil companies in large
RQ> pails. Another petroleum product that I have looked at, but
RQ> never used, is hydraulic fluid.

Hydraulic fluid is useless. It contains highly polar chemicals
(glycols) which are almost conductors wrt HV.

Straight paraffin oil is best. This oil is widely used to prevent
"bloat" in cattle in this country, and is relatively cheap and is
food grade, very pure, and free from any additives. As you say,
most oil companies will sell transformer oil which is specified
for certain voltage break down characteristics. It is usually
very dry (very low water content) and free from additives.
Jim Oliver <jim.oliver@welcom.gen.nz> 04-385-6550  (3:771/370.0)


  Date: 10-12-94  16:14
  From: Richard Quick                             
    To: Jim Oliver                                
  Subj: Tesla Coils

Quoting Jim Oliver, who quoted RICHARD QUICK, who quoted MARK
CONWAY: This post concerns types and availability of insulating
oils for high-voltage work, Tesla capacitor construction, etc...

... JO> heavily edited
 
MC> One thing I'm not sure of is what mineral oil is - is it
MC> used for lubricating machines or what?
 
 RQ> Well in this country, mineral oil is a pharmaceutical        
 RQ> (medical) grade of pure petroleum oil. It is sold in         
 RQ> drugstores as an intestinal lubricant (laxative), and for    
 RQ> skin care (women use it to remove makeup). It is heavy,      
 RQ> clear, and has little or no smell (odorless). Another use    
 RQ> for this product is to oil down baby bottoms to prevent      
 RQ> diaper rash.

Mark Conway asked me if it was swallowed in it's use as an
intestinal lubricant: the answer is yes it is.

 JO> It's also called Paraffin Oil.
 
 MC> Would clean motor oil have the same insulating properties as
 MC> mineral oil or would the additives in it mean that it would
 MC> not be suitable for high voltage insulation?
 
 RQ> I have used cheap, clean, motor to cover the salt water in   
 RQ> salt water capacitors: but for the plastic capacitors I      
 RQ> spend the extra money and go with the higher quality, pure,  
 RQ> mineral oil.

 JO> Here, here. Engine oil of _any_ type is too heavily          
 JO> contaminated with additives for HV work.

Not when used as I have suggested... for corona supression only
on salt water plate capacitors. It is poured over the salt water,
and acts to reduce corona losses. Single grade motor oil works
just fine in this application, and as Mark Conway is using a
capacitor of this type, I thought I would mention it: it is
cheap, available, and effective in this use. For any other high-
voltage use I recommend the pure mineral (paraffin) oil or
transformer oil.
 
 RQ>A good alternative would be high grade, PCB free, transformer
 RQ>oil, which is sometimes available from oil companies in large
 RQ>pails. Another petroleum product that I have looked at, but   
 RQ>never used, is hydraulic fluid.

 JO> Hydraulic fluid is useless. It contains highly polar         
 JO> chemicals (glycols) which are almost conductors wrt HV.

My grievous mistake: the particular type of hydraulic fluid I
have been looking at is the new type, silicone base, fluid. It
contains no glycols, is non-hygroscopic (water attracting) and
non-polar. It appears to be an excellent high-voltage insulator:
good heat capacity, non-conductive, non-flamable, high boiling
point. It is expensive, but my local auto parts stores sells it
by the pint for car brake systems: it does not mix with the older
glycol fluid or petroleum based products. I neglected to list the
exact type of hydraulic fluid I was looking at: I apologize for
any confusion.    

 JO> Straight paraffin oil is best. This oil is widely used to    
 JO> prevent "bloat" in cattle in this country, and is relatively 
 JO> cheap and is food grade, very pure, and free from any        
 JO> additives. As you say, most oil companies will sell          
 JO> transformer oil which is specified for certain voltage break 
 JO> down characteristics. It is usually very dry (very low water 
 JO> content) and free from additives.

There you go. With this list of suggestions, Mark Conway and
others should have no problem finding a suitable oil for use in 
Tesla capacitor construction.


  Date: 10-10-94  15:58
  From: Kirk Lyons                                 
    To: Richard Quick                              
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil
for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project.  One
source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1 tsp.
at a time).  The other source would only sell it to me in 
55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors).

Can you please provide me with a source for this.  Thank
you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any
info you can give me on a source for this oil. 
(314) 837-5422 (1:100/395)


  Date: 10-10-94  18:02
  From: Richard Quick                               
    To: Kirk Lyons                                  
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

 KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil
 KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project.  One
 KL> source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities (1   
 KL> tsp. at a time).  The other source would only sell it to me  
 KL> in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors).

 KL> Can you please provide me with a source for this.  Thank
 KL> you for all the info on Tesla Coil building and for any
 KL> info you can give me on a source for this oil. 

U.S.P. Mineral oil is available in pint and quart containers in
most supermarkets and drug stores. Walgreens Drugstores carries
this oil in quart containers for around $5.00, so figure about 
$20.00 to get a gallon. If they don't have a gallon (four quarts)
in stock, ask the floor manager, they can order it quickly.

Scented mineral oil (not U.S.P. grade, but still high quality) is
sold under the label "Baby Oil" by Johnson & Johnson. This grade 
is also suitable for capacitor construction. Try an off-brand
(which by law is equivilent) for cost savings. Sometimes this
grade can be found on sale (WAL-MART $1.50 per pint).

I hope you downloaded the most current TESLA?.ZIP file and made
it available on your favorite BBSs! Thanks for the complements!


  Date: 10-11-94  22:04
  From: James Meyer                                
    To: Kirk Lyons                                
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

On 10-10-94, KIRK LYONS wrote to RICHARD QUICK and said:

KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil
KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project.  One

    The high voltage transformer oil that we use in the laser lab
    is certified and very expensive.  However, it looks, smells,
    burns, and gives every other impression of being kerosene
    that has been well refined.

    I suspect that the grade of kerosene sold for heaters and
    lamps would be a perfectly suitable substitute.
               Jim (1:3641/1)

  Date: 10-12-94  22:25
  From: Eugene Welcome                              
    To: Kirk Lyons                                 
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

KL> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral Oil
KL> for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project.
KL> Can you please provide me with a source for this.

Hi Kirk. There are two sources possibly near you. Xray Sales and
service such as Siemans, Picker, GE, CGR, Toshiba, Bennett and
several others. Secondly try your local Power Utility at their
service dept. All of the above are the larger known companies
that use transformer oil and maintain backup stock for re-
placement needs.

I still have a gallon here for my dummy load. The best is made by
Shell Oil called Diala AX. Most transformers used today use this
product. It is superior to mineral oil when it comes to high
voltages of hundreds of thousands of volts. Diagnostic Xray up to
150,000 volts. Radiation Therapy Xray up to 500,000 volts. I've
worked on them for many years. I'm now retired. :-) (1:138/119.0)


  Date: 10-12-94  22:40
  From: Steve Ostrom                                
    To: Kirk Lyons                                  
  Subj: Mineral Oil for Capacitor

In a message of <10 Oct 94  15:58:00>, Kirk Lyons (1:100/395)
writes:

 KL=> I am having a difficult time locating the U.S.P. Mineral    
 KL=> Oil for the High Voltage Pulse Discharge Capacitor project. 
 KL=> One source I located only sold it in "Unit Dose" quantities 
 KL=> (1 tsp. at a time).  The other source would only sell it to 
 KL=> me in 55 gallon drums (I dont want to make 55 capacitors).

You should ask the unit dose people who supplies them. I bet they
don't buy the 55 gallon drums. (1:163/307.6)


  Date: 10-15-94  08:35
  From: Rick Morlock                                 
    To: James Meyer                                  
  Subj: Mineral oil for capacitor

JM> burns, and gives every other impression of being kerosene
JM> that has been well refined. I suspect that the grade of 
JM> kerosene sold for heaters and lamps would be a perfectly 
JM> suitable substitute.

    Jim, I would not recommend Kerosene at all it is highly
    flammable where as mineral oil isn't highly flammable.
    That sounds dangerous to me. Rick Morlock, strider3@aol.com / 
    rick.morlock@f165.n260.z1.fidonet.org 716-646-5438            
    (1:260/165)

  Date: 10-16-94  12:54
  From: James Meyer                                
    To: Rick Morlock                               
  Subj: Mineral oil for capacitor

On 10-15-94, RICK MORLOCK wrote to JAMES MEYER and said:

JM> I suspect that the grade of kerosene sold for heaters and
JM> lamps would be a perfectly suitable substitute.

RM> Jim, I would not recommend Kerosene at all it is highly
RM> flammable where as mineral oil i sn't highly flammable.
RM> That sounds dangerous to me..

My point was that if you're considering real, honest-to-goodness,
high voltage transformer oil, then you might as well use a good
grade of kerosene.  They are practically the same. If kerosene is
dangerous, then so is transformer oil.

Have you made any side-by-side personal experiments regarding
how flammable kerosene and mineral oil are? I thought not.
Jim 919-286-4542 (1:3641/1)

  Date: 10-16-94  18:13
  From: Grant Fair                                  
    To: James Meyer                                 
  Subj: Mineral Oil For Capacitor

Well, according to Don Lancaster in Hardware Hacker, kerosene was
used in electrical discharge milling - which means that even at
relatively low potential - less than 100V, for example - with a
gap of a mil between the work piece and the cutting tool, there
would be a spark. This suggests it would not be a good
dialectric, no?

Since I have no practical experience or other knowledge in this
area I stand open to correction. (1:229/15)


  Date: 10-18-94  20:36
  From: Jason Advani                               
    To: Michael Cary                               
  Subj: JACOBS LADDER

 > Again, BE CAREFUL!!! I cannot overemphasize this. Playing 
 > with the power a neon sign transformer is capable of           
 > generating can cause electrocution. NO JOKE!!! 

Uhmm.. Where can I find a Neon Sign Transformer? This project
seems real cool. If I were to enclose the whole thing in an air
tight Glass box would it still work? Jason 513-231-7013
(1:108/205)

  Date: 19 Oct 94  16:27:34
  From: Richard Quick                                
    To: Jason Advani                                 
  Subj: JACOBS LADDER


 JA> Uhmm.. Where can I find a Neon Sign Transformer? This        
 JA> project seems real cool. If I were to enclose the whole      
 JA> thing in an air tight glass box would it still work? 
 JA> Jason

Neon Sign xfmrs are available used from most neon sign shops.
Look in your local Yellow Pages under " SIGNS " for shops that
specialize in neon work. Often times you can locate a decent
working unit for free by calling around.

As to the project: the arc moves up the "ladder" when air is
heated and begins to rise, this rising hot air current carries
the arc upwards. The Jacob's Ladder works best when the rails are
mounted in an enclosure with an open bottom and an open top. The
enclosure prevents side drafts from breaking the arc prematurely,
and gives the longest arc. The open bottom and top construction
of the enclosure allows for the airflow, fresh cool air coming in
at the bottom, and hot dirty air leaving at the top.  
