
From telecom-request@delta.eecs.nwu.edu  Thu Sep 21 21:58:08 1995
by
1995
21:58:08 -0400
telecomlist-outbound; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 18:25:04 -0500
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To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu


TELECOM Digest     Thu, 21 Sep 95 18:25:00 CDT    Volume 15 : Issue 399

Inside This Issue:                           Editor: Patrick A. Townson

    Re: Cellular Telephone and Modems (Tony Zuccarino)
    Re: Pros and Cons About Making One Channel of T1 Data Line (Lou 
DeFonzo)
    Re: What is Required to Switch LD Service (Bryan Roberts)
    Re: Bell Canada Tests "Soft" Dial Tone (Scott Temaat)
    Re: Bell Canada Tests "Soft" Dial Tone (Rick Scholl)
    Re: Bell Canada Tests "Soft" Dial Tone (Steve Cogorno)
Wengler)
    Re: AOL and Expectations of Privacy (Fredrick J. Strelzoff)
    Looking at AOL and Compuserve From France (JeanBernard Condat)
    Re: Modem Bridging (Eric Ewanco)
    Multiplexing Over Digital Line? (Andrew Oliver)
    Re: Cellular Telephone and Modems (Steve Cogorno)
    Re: T1 Direct to Modem Bank (Craig Nordin)
    Re: Cell One/NY Discontinues ATT 500 Service When ATT Takes Over! 
(bkron)
    Re: Beyond V.34, V.34bis and Rockwell's 33.6 (Steve Forrette)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------



In article <telecom15.379.1@eecs.nwu.edu>, jjg@pt.com (John Grana) 
wrote:

> I cannot find much information on hooking up a cellular telephone to a
> 28.8 modem. The modem is INSIDE my home computer. The reason I would
> like to connect such a strange combination is two-fold.

> One, my local cell providers have a deal where I have free airtime
> from 7 PM to 7 AM weekdays and all weekend. That's pretty much the
> time I am likely to us my system to dial in work, AOL, the net etc.

> Two, since my kids are getting older, I really don't want to tie up
> the house line too much during the above time periods ...

> The problem thus far is I am getting the impression that the cable
> that connects the modem and phone costs over $100!

Probably!
 
> Is this cable "active"? Isn't there just a TIP and RING signal hangin
> out on the tiny connector (the phone I am looking at is a Nokia 2XX).

Yes, there is special conditioning (not necessary but best for
performance) command interpretation and signal re-routing to adapt
tip/ring to the analog cell phone connector. Remember that a cell
phone with an RJ11 input is a rare if not never existent bird indeed.
RJ11 doesn't mean anything to a cellphone. For obvious reasons.
 
> If its TIP and RING, why couldn't I find a suitable plug and make
> my own cable?

No. That connector on Nokia is control lines and analog tx/rx lines. 
Nothing at all like tip/ring. Proprietary interface.
 
> Last but not least, do cellular phone systems have the bandwidth to
> support 28.8 modems? My Supra usually runs at 26400 with a local
> provider.

Doubt it. In fact no. Not until the cell carrier installs modem pools
that have protocol/signal conditioning that exactly matches what your
cell modem would have. Hopefully MNP10EC (shameless Rockwell plug).

You probably won't get better than 14.4 if you're lucky.


Tony Zuccarino        Internet: tony.zuccarino@nb.rockwell.com
Product Marketing     Rockwell International

------------------------------



rolland@mcs.com (Rolland Suh) wrote:

> We are thinking about getting 56KB dedicated line to the Internet.  We
> already have a T1 voice line, and wondering if it would be cost
> effective for us to use one of the channels of existing T1, over
> getting a new dediccated line.  Any idea on this?

Assuming that you are not using all 24 DS0s, this would be an
excellent way of gaining internet access. However, this will depend on
who your carrier is for the T1 and who you are planning to use for
your Internet Access Provider. This will require that your CSU is
capable of providing Drop and Insert capability and that it can
support a DSU. Basically a DSU/CSU with Drop and Insert capability.

------------------------------



This is to reply to Larry Rubin on what evidence is required to switch
LD service.

In response to the question of "what is evidence is required" to
switch long distance service.  Currently there are only three ways
your service can legally be switched by you personally, calling into
the local phone company, via third party verification, or a signed
letter of authorization.  If you are solicited by a telesales person
and make a switch it is required by law that you receive a second call
from an independent third party to verify the sale. Usually the third
party call will consist of a very short script, did you know you were
switching, do you know of all the fees, here are the services you
agreed to, and is this address correct.  A signed LOA is usually
required for large line (50+) transactions, special circumstances, or
if it is requested.  If you are uncomfortable with the commitment over
the phone insist on an LOA. If the company that you are dealing with
resists or says that it is not possible I would relook my commitment.

I am concerned with the encyclopedia salesman analogy.  I do admit the
influx of new LD companies has created a concern (in some cases well
founded) for "slamming".

I am the Business Manager for a telesales center with MCI. We go to
great lengths to insure against unethical sales.  Each of our
associates receives four weeks of training before they are allowed to
start on the sales floor. The last two weeks of this is in a
specialized training bay. Once on the floor they receive an additional
two hours of training every two weeks.  We also have two organizations
that blind monitor live calls to insure quality. Each sale is verified
thru an independent company via a second call or signed LOA each of
which can cancel the sale before it effects your service. I hope that
I have made some headway in dispelling the "encyclopedia salesman"
image.  We are a professional sales organization that takes pride in
our company and products.


Bryan Roberts    5194087@mcimail.com

------------------------------



This is very similar to sa service started in the Mississippi service
area of BellSOuth on July 31. All phone jacks now have the "soft" dial
tone -- with only two numbers allowed: 6-1-1 (customer service) and
9-1-1 (emergency).

As a 9-1-1 dispatcher, I think it's a great thing -- we only have two
small problems with it: (1) the line shows up on the ALI (Automated
Location Indicator) as a business number, which can be misleading to
someone not familiar with an area, or in an area that's mixed
business/residential. (2) the number, although it displays for us,
cannot accept incoming calls. therefore we can't call back if
disconnected. Also, the caller, obviously, won't know the number.

I would prefer to see an indicator (such as NOPR for Non-operative),
in place of the BUSN (Business) designation for these numbers. We
should also have some sort of Operator-override available (as I
believe we should on pay phones that don't accept incoming calls). By
this, I mean we could call the "0" operator, identify ourselves, and
have the operator ring the number back on disconnect. (This is the
same procedure we use for emergency traces when people call on an
administrative line and can't tell us where they are, and their
condition is too bad to trust that they can reconnect through 9-1-1 --
a process which can take up to ten minutes if they don't know the
number they're at.)


Best,

Scott


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: The problem is, even the operator cannot
ringback to lines which are one-way outgoing only service *unless she
had the call up to start with and has not released it*. Just 'cold 
dialing'
by the operator into a one-way outgoing line will get her the same 
results
it gets you: an intercept saying it cannot be reached.  Now if she got 
the
call to start with and has not yet released it, then she can ring back
on the line. What 911 needs obviously is the ability to hold up a trunk
on an incoming call and only release it when they get ready to do so.  
PAT]

------------------------------



Robert Levandowski (rlvd_cif@uhura.cc.rochester.edu) wrote:

> In <telecom15.385.9@eecs.nwu.edu> kph@cisco.com (Kevin Paul Herbert) 
writes:

>> Interestingly, US West does not use "611" at all for lines which are 
not
>> set soft dialtone. Although you can dial "611" when you move into 
your
>> house to establish service, once they turn up the service, "611" no 
longer
>> works, and you have to dial an 800 number for customer service.

>> [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I think the reason for that choice of 
>> numbers might be that some people, on hearing dialtone, would be 
confused
>> and think perhaps the line was working normally. On attempting to 
make
>> calls and never getting connected anywhere, a logical response would 
be
>> to call 'repair service' which often times is 611.  By the way, what

> Pat, I think you missed the point ... it's good that the soft-dialtone 
> phones can dial 611, because it's a pseudo-standard.  Like you said,
> most areas use 611 for repair.  However, it's bad that once you get
> real dialtone, 611 doesn't work anymore, and you have to dial some
> other number.  How unnecessarily confusing!  Your first experience
> with your new phone is "611 is for repair/service."  The next time you
> have a problem, most likely you think, "611 is for repair" -- and it
> doesn't work.  

I've heard that the reason companies are moving away from 611 is that
the RBOC's use it and the competitive access providers have to use a
seven digit number, so as a CAP comes into place the RBOC is ordered
to switch to a seven digit number so they don't have a saleable
advantage.


Richard C. Scholl             Internet: scholl@mpm1.mpm.edu     
Electronic Systems Engineer   (414) 278-6161  FAX (414) 278-6100
Milwaukee Public Museum, Inc. 2 meter/440 Ham Radio: N9EJO      
800 W. Wells Street           
Milwaukee, WI  53233          


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: That really is pathetic in a way. Telco
is never supposed to have any advantages over the others, and yet if
it were not for telco's expertise and extensive outside plant, most of
the others could not exist at all. I wonder how come the next time these
come-latelys protest about something telco is doing that is an unfair
advantage telco does not tell them (a) to start stringing their own
wires and (b) to move out of the central offices where they are co-
located
and start building their own facilities. If I were operating a telco and
got the static and grief from some of the competitors that Bell gets, 
I would tell them invest in your own outside plant, construct your own
central offices, stay out of my hundred year's or so worth of research
and technology and do your own instead. Then, in thirty or forty years --
if you are lucky and all goes smoothly -- come back and see me. I will
hand you some wire pairs out the door to be used for your 
interconnections
and that is it.  None of those people care one iota about the consumer
or end user. They just want a piece of the action no matter what the
ultimate cost to the industry and the public network as a whole.   PAT]

------------------------------



Kevin Paul Herbert said:

> US West has been using soft dialtone on some of its switches for about
> a year now. When a line is set for soft dialtone, it can only call
> "611" for the business office, and "911" for emergencies.

I don't think this is all that new.  Pacific Bell has been doing
something similar for at least five years: although no dial tone is
provided.  Basically when someone disconnects service, PacBell
instructs the switch to disallow service -- however they don't actually
pull the circuit.  They do this for the primary line, however if there
are multiple lines in a residence, they will physically disconnect them
to re-use for other customers.

Since the line is physically connected to the switch, it would be nice
if they did provide soft dialtone so that a new customer wouldn't have
to find a payphone to establish service.


Steve     cogorno@netcom.com

------------------------------



In the article describing Bell Canada's introduction of soft dialtone on
unsubscribed lines, it was stated:

> A secondary benefit of Soft Dial Tone is that, in the event of an
> emergency, students can call 911 emergency service without having
> regular phone service during September and October.

Can Bell Canada really be so cavalier to only provide 911 service for
two months?

I rented an apartment in Westchester County, NY (914) for a few
months.  Plugging in the phone I brought with me, I discovered dial
tone!  Trying to dial out ANY number except 911 and the business
office number, I reached an intercept saying that only calls to 911
and XXX-XXXX, the business office number could be made from this
phone.  The phone would NOT let me make credit card calls, all 800
nums and access codes got me the same intercept.  911 was always
available, though, not just for the first two months I was in the
apartment!

If the report on Bell Canada is accurate, I have to wonder why they
will take 911 only during September and October.  What will the
intercept to 911 say after October?  "You should have subscribed and
paid us.  Now you can be robbed and killed for all we care, cheapskate
non-cutomer!  If you do survive, call our business office to subscribe."


Mike Wengler

Save $1 on every Travel Card call, info and application at
http://www.he.net/~wengler/VoiceNet/ or 
ftp://he.net/pub/wengler/index.txt
Phone/Fax: 716 244-0238


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I don't think telco is required to 
provide
its services for free on an unlimited basis. Where would you draw the
line? What about the other utility services which cut off service for
non-payment and then some emergency occurs as a result?  There are laws
here in Illinois that prevent gas/electric shutoffs during winter months
or at any time when 'a medical condition would be aggravated by the
loss of service', and telco here is obligated to follow the latter also.
But even then, it is not unlimited in scope. If your medical condition
would worsen as a result of not having a phone to call your doctor, then
you supply proof of same to telco and they keep your service on for
sixty days. But I think sixty days is more than fair.   PAT]



                                                                           

------------------------------



I would also like to say that AOL offers an easy access to scammers over 
the internet. By hiding finger infomation and having a non responsive 
postmaster also helps. AOLers can get a temporary account and use it to 
sell stuff over the internet like these newsgroups. They can ship COD 
and 
when the packages gets there, the unlucky soul pays the Mailboxes etc or 
UPS guy ... then when he opens a empty box, there is nothing he can do. 
When you consult AOL about this, they respond 'Its the wild west.'

Well ... whats a multi million $ company doing in the wild west besides 
taking advantage of it? If I had some money maybe I would be able to 
hire 
a lawyer, as I was the one who recieved the empty box.


Fred Strelzoff  University of Massachusetts
Department of Computer Engineering
Respond: dark@titan.ucs.umass.edu


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: Try this address for complaints about
AOL:  send email to TOSAdvisor@aol.com.   'TOS Advisor' is an internal
address members can write to, however all screen names at AOL seem to
be addressable from the internet by sliding all the letters together
as one word then adding '@aol.com'. I went on there a couple nights ago
for the first time in a few months ... and what did I find in my mail
but these big massive chain letters with hundreds of cc's still shown.
I forwarded the whole thing to TOS Advisor with my compliments and a
note saying I wished it was still possible to delete mail from my 
mailbox
I was not interested in. Just try forwarding mail to that address with
a short cover note saying 'this appears to be a violation of TOS by
one of your members.'  I don't know what it will achieve, but since they
get their jollies writing up violators, pass along a few they may not
have seen or heard about yet.  Worst that will happen is your mail will
bounce or 'virtually bounce', i.e. they get it and pitch it.    PAT]

------------------------------



Pat, bonjour:

I receive today _Telecom Digest_ v15 #386 and will be please to react
from my poor little country France. We have an uncredible terminal
called Minitel with more than 32,000 services that work very good: you
can reserve train tickets, look the weather, found a parent address,
etc. for no money ...

The poor Paris's headquarters of CompuServe give all the students the
opportunity to have an expensive Internet access (with a crazy Spry
viewer), a poor file transfer system and some very easy-to-use forums.
I am the sysop of the french forum (GO FRFORUM). It's a marvelous
place, but only for strange guys sending ten-words-long messages in a
poor French language ("Ou est la Tour Eiffel a Paris?").  CompuServe
is a great company for poor member without culture.

If you look at the group conversation, the level is the same that in a
teenagers classroom. On the 500 hours of daily connection, I note
that 95% of the users are French lovers ... and no typical French guys.

AOL try to visit all the French company to found a real French market.
They send two uncredible crazy guys ... speaking a bad French language
to explain what email really is.  No sex, no ads ... nothing. A French
relation without sex, sun and sea ... is like a day without woman for
me.

Please said to CompuServe and AOL to go out from France with all the
pudibond forums ... and don't visit my forum (FRFORUM) in which only
no-French guys speak on "un-sexual" and "un-interessant" matter.


Regards,

Jean-Bernard Condat     75162,767@CompuServe.com


[TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: I did not edit the above because I am
not quite sure in all respects what the writer is saying or meant to
say. I can tell you that Compuserve has a huge number of European
subscribers and a large number of subscribers from all over the world.
The way to tell is look for the 100xxx user ID's. While the 7xxxx
numbers are generally USA members who have been around for at least
a few years with 700xx and 701xx being among the charter subscribers
going *way back* into the early 1980's, and the 102xxx numbers are the 
more recent (past several months) arrivals (with 1027xx and 1028xx
being very new members in the past month or less, at least at this
writing), the 100xxx people are all from other countries. Some of the
Europeans have 7's if they have been around awhile, but most have 100's.

Check out CB in the early morning hours around 5-7 AM by our time here.
There will be a few -- very few -- die hards from the USA still on there
promoting their hustles and what not and just a few 100's. This morning 
I
called in to check my email about 7:00 AM and went over to peek at CB.
Between the general and the adult machines combined there were about 
sixty users in total, mostly from Europe. That, compared to midnight in
the USA when over a thousand people are on CB at one time. Last weekend
I think it was closer to 1500 people at one point. 

You'll see a shift in the user base there as the day goes on. All 
morning
long CB is full of 100's as the teenagers in the UK, France and those
areas get home from school and start logging in. By mid-afternoon, the
load is balanced between USA people and Europeans, and Australians seem
to get on there a lot also. As the evening wears on, the 100's begin
dropping off, and the 102's with their new computer and 'try it for
free' signup package start logging in. 

I got a letter here once from a fellow in Australia who said to me the
'only good thing I like about Compuserve and their outrageous rates'
(this was back when they were getting about nine dollars per hour flat
rate a few years ago) 'is using the CB Simulator for c-sex' ... I wrote
him back and said I found that sort of incredible because after all,
Compuserve CB is heavily populated by Americans; about 95 percent of
the crowd there are from the USA, and we Americans tend to do 'it' on
weekend nights. What was he going to find at night over there except
a mostly empty CB Simulator while the Americans were at their places
of employment or sleeping, etc?  His answer back was equally incredible: 
people on that side of the world long ago accepted that they have to
login Sunday afternoon 'while it is still Saturday night in the
States' if you want to 'get in on the fun'. So I thought to myself, no
wonder some of the Brits I meet on there are so crabby and distempered; 
I would be also at seven oclock on Sunday morning if I were up and
about in order to see what the Americans were up to with their computers 
at the same time.  <grin> .... PAT]

------------------------------



In article <telecom15.391.11@eecs.nwu.edu> chrisr@speedware.com
(Christopher Rupnik) writes:

> Is it possible to bridge using modems?

> I would like to be able to bridge netbeui/appletalk/ipxspx and tcp/ip
> over a normal modem line.  I currently use ISDN lines and Ascend
> Pipeline 50's to do this, but of course this is a bit expensive. Is
> there any software that will allow me to do that?

Yes, it is possible, as long as you have a router and a modem that can
agree on a serial interface (e.g., asynchronous EIA-423 or some
synchronous protocol), and the router supports dialup lines as well as
leased lines.  Or you could do it in software, running routed or gated
on a Unix machine with a PPP connection.


Eric Ewanco    eje@world.std.com
Software Engineer, Xyplex Inc.
Littleton, Mass.

------------------------------



Please bear with me here, this is nothing I've ever gotten into
before, so I'm not sure if what I'm asking is possible/feasible/easy.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the scenario:

Unix server based in location A;
Unix termainal based in location B;
Digital line connecting locations A and B with Motorola modems 
connecting 
server/terminal to the line.

This setup works and allows the terminal to connect and transact with
the server.

Now, the problem is:

Standalone Macs in location A;
Standalone Mac in location B.

I want to use the same digital line (it is *not* ISDN) to allow the
Macs to talk to each other, preferably using AppleTalk Remote Access.
I'm happy setting up the Macs, but I'm not sure hooking into about the
digital line.

I've been told that I can get put a modem on each Mac and connect them
(along with the existing modems) to some kind of multiplexor which
will zip the signal across to the other site where another multiplexor
splits the signal back into the respective modems/computers.

Is this true?  What do I need to do to get this to work?

Any suggestions/help greatly appreciated. I can supply more specific
information if needed.


Thanks, in advance,

AndrewO@communique.net  |  AndrewO@eWorld.com

------------------------------



John Grana said:

> The problem thus far is I am getting the impression that the cable
> that connects the modem and phone costs over $100!

Believe it!  The adapter for my Motorola Flip phone cost over $250.

> Is this cable "active"? Isn't there just a TIP and RING signal hangin
> out on the tiny connector (the phone I am looking at is a Nokia 2XX).

> If its TIP and RING, why couldn't I find a suitable plug and make
> my own cable?

No.  It isn't a regular line interface -- remember you're using 
cellular.  
The adapter needs to simulate a landline connection when it's really
working through the phone.

> Last but not least, do cellular phone systems have the bandwidth to
> support 28.8 modems? My Supra usually runs at 26400 with a local
> provider.

You aren't going to get anywhere near 28.8.  Consider yourself lucky
at 14.4.  I think 9600 would be more like it.

I would think you would be better off by getting call forwarding on
your phone line and setting your line to call forward to cell before
logging on.  Also you can have others use the cell phone to make
outgoing calls. It's cheaper and simpler!


Steve     cogorno@netcom.com

------------------------------



Before you play this game, question the unquestionable!

Take a pen and paper out and count out all your expenses.

Standard POTS lines may be cheaper and give you less equipment to
invest in.  Let me say this in another way: The more equipment you can
have your local Bell install, the more money you have.

Do the Math ...


cnordin@charm.net

------------------------------

Over!


dreuben@interpage.net (Doug Reuben) writes:

> After recently abandoning the widely recognized "Cellular One" name
> and calling themselves "AT&T Wireless Services", Cell One/NY completed
> a number of dialing procedure changes which currently do not allow
> anyone on the CO/NY (00025) system to place 0-500 calls to AT&T's 500
> service.  ("B" Side NYNEX customers have no problem in completing
> 0-500 calls.)

The change may be a result of AT&T's implementation of "Equal Access"
in their newly acquired cellular systems.  Even though AT&T purchased
McCaw some time ago, they were prohibited from changing their "Cellular 
One" dba to "AT&T Wireless" until equal access was implemented.  (You
should have gotten a ballot.)

------------------------------



In article <telecom15.379.7@eecs.nwu.edu>, la@well.com says:

> Based on what I know, only about 70 percent of the phone lines in the
> USA are able to handle 28.8 kbps.

Also, it is important to note that different IXC's seem to have
different capabilities with respect to high speeds.  For example, I
regularly call from 206-285 to 713-652, and when using AT&T, I always
get a 26400 bps connection, but both Sprint and MCI always negotiate
at 24000 bps.


Steve Forrette, stevef@wrq.com

------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest V15 #399
******************************

                         
